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Post by Evilluke on May 25, 2005 3:16:12 GMT -5
I'm not specifically anti-christian but I am anti-people, and I would describe myself as an enemy of the church as someone who likes to make up his own mind and live his life by his own rules... The majority of christian types I've had personal experience of are good people but they're also very weak. They've essentially opted out of the choice to make moral judgements, and sometimes any judgements, themselves. In my opinion it makes them morally retarted - they don't choose to do or not do something because of any reason other than someone bigger than them told them to, which is the same level of morality you get in a small child. Outgrowing this kind of reasoning and being able to come to your own conclusions about your actions is a vital part of becoming an adult.
I agree with NNNick re. the dangerous nature of belief over ideas. When people get religion and decide to force it upon others, be it by sending thjem arrogant emails or wiping them out with Kalashnikovs then they are way out of line. The christian faith seems to have the biggest number of idiots like this in its ranks but I'd level this criticism at any organised religious body, including the laughable church of satan.
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Post by Evilluke on May 25, 2005 3:18:13 GMT -5
Jesus, however, is the fucking nuts. If you read his words away from the context of the new testament (forget the old testament altogether) he's awesome.
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Post by Charlotte on May 25, 2005 3:53:31 GMT -5
He's a fucking hippy and you know it - long hair, no job, wears a dress - hippy. ;D
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Post by DeathUK on May 25, 2005 5:39:12 GMT -5
I'm not sure I totally agree on this, but I DO agree that it is one of the major problems of modern society. Let me elaborate. So much bollocks goes on cos people bang on about "Gad wants it that way" and "Inch Allah" (sp? means God's will). I have seen countless examples of people standing by not helping or condoning bad things and just saying it's God's will. Also, I have some Christian family friends, and they send my family news letters every year. These consist of how the parents are going to China to help build schools and spread the word of God. See how these two phrase are linked? THey even complain about hte Chinese authorities trying to sabotage their holy mission by not letting them in! And their son, who is my age and went to my school, now works in Tesco's and says he is "very happy" cos it is what God had planned for him, and when you ask what he is going to do next, he just says "God will show me". Stupid. Fucking stupid.
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Post by exsequor on May 25, 2005 6:17:53 GMT -5
At least we can somewhat express our anti-christian beliefs, if this country becomes an Islamic state then you can forget about having any stance against religion, in that case at the moment the other religions coming into the country needs to be noticed, after all Christianity is dying out here......
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Post by DeathUK on May 25, 2005 6:37:06 GMT -5
hmm you are starting to sound racist there Stoney. My problems with religion are only with the zealots and extremists of any religion. Although I still judge any religious person to be a bit sad, most of the are nice of course.
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Post by Billy on May 25, 2005 6:44:23 GMT -5
But essentially, the tenets of most religions are positive things and if people followed them the world would be a much better place surely?
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Post by Evilluke on May 25, 2005 7:57:02 GMT -5
Ah yes, the basic tenants are, but it's seperating that from all the crap, arroganmce and xenophobia that surrounds it.... at the heart of its message Christianity, Islam and most others I can think of preach positive things and if everyone who chose to follow the a religion lived their lives by these rules and these alone then the world would be a wonderful place, but this essential message has become warped by reams of strictures placed there by people in order to foster power and ignorance, and that makes them essentially useless. Take christianity - Jesus says 'I've come to abolish the law (the old testament and hedge laws that make up Judaism), the law is written on your heart, and the most important thing is love thy neighbour as thyself' - sounds, simple message - that actually contradicts vast chunks of what the christian church preaches today. Just a quick flick through the bible will find you commandments of genocide in the OT and the apostle Paul saying he'd rather lie in bed with a sack of shit than a woman in the NT: hardly sticking to the key theme of christ, and thats just in the bible itself - the countless strictures built up by the church go even further, to the end that its become an entity for promoting repression, bigotry, the erosion of cultural identity and the supression of minority rights throughout the world. Its my opinion that as good as the basic message of christ (or Mohammed, or Budhha or Guru Nanak or whoever) may be, it's also something that any person witha degree of empathy or intelligence should be able to arrive at of their own free will. You don't need to be a religious person to know that it's right to treat others human beings and the world around you with a degree of respect. All humanity can learn from religion is that it's the biggest clusterfuck ever devised, and combined with rampant capitalism is completely ruining the earth and everything on it. The sooner people forget about it the better.
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Post by Billy on May 25, 2005 8:25:22 GMT -5
Unless of course any of it is right! Hahahaha
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Post by Evilluke on May 25, 2005 9:28:42 GMT -5
Well, yeah, that'll be a nasty surprise for all of us!
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Post by Crysannia on May 25, 2005 11:10:04 GMT -5
Im not anti any religion in theory..so long as no one tries to force their beliefs on me(or anyone) and IT DOESNT HURT ANYONE. People can belive wtf they like as far as im concerend, if it makes them feel a bit better about themselves or helps them cope then thats great, but as soon as they begin to ram their personal beliefs down someones throat or use 'belief' as a justification for murder, pain, violence, extortion etc.etc. then i develop a strong dislike for them.
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Post by exsequor on May 25, 2005 11:26:28 GMT -5
hmm you are starting to sound racist there Stoney. My problems with religion are only with the zealots and extremists of any religion. Although I still judge any religious person to be a bit sad, most of the are nice of course. I didnt sound racist at all, i did not mention Race in any part of that post, it was purely based on Religion.
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Post by Charlotte on May 26, 2005 2:24:24 GMT -5
I didn't think it sounded especially racist either - racism isn't based purely on religion and disliking the spread of Islam doesn't make one racist.
Religion is not based on race, and this is not a discussion about race.
And, to play devil's advocate, what if it did sound a bit racist? People are entitled to an opinion, and it's not as if we have the next Varg on our hands here (thank fuck).
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Post by Tom on May 26, 2005 4:36:39 GMT -5
Juding by his spelling etc, I reckon he is a young kid, cos even thick grown-ups can spell. I think this sentence is classic... hee hee
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Post by Tom on May 26, 2005 4:54:31 GMT -5
But essentially, the tenets of most religions are positive things and if people followed them the world would be a much better place surely? Agreed, but people do follow these holy rules and therein lies the problem. Humans are fundamentally flawed, and one person's "true" interpretation may be at odds with another's. I personally don't think that the message of any god is bad, but the way these messages are represented, and then forced upon other people (even simply in terms of law-making and social acceptablility, if not preaching) is what I disagree with. If the Bible was stripped of all the fantasy, down to the core of "love thy neighbour" and similar guidelines then it would be acceptable. I'm not too fussed about who begat who, and the idea of a Supreme Being. The teachings of Christ are good in principle, and some of the Commandments aren't all bad, although I side with Blake when it comes to the prescriptive "Thou Shalt Not..." idea. As with Luke, it's the people who claim to represent their God that piss me off. On a similar, but slightly divergent note, isn't it strange how if there is a mass religious suicide (such as Heaven's Gate and Waco) it's down to misguided beliefs and people being unhinged in the first place? It's nothing to do with the message of God, because God is pure and infallible. And yet if some 17 year old kid shoots himself, it's because he owns a Judas Priest album or something similar...
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