Haha, I can't say I like any of those bands apart from Enslaved, and I only like their early, raw stuff! The only well produced BM I can think of that I like is De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas.
Of course, it's all down to taste, but I can't personally see any room for well produced black metal at all. What appeals about black metal to me is the bleak, almost hypnotic/trance-like feel which is usually a 50/50 mix of the music and the production. If I want to hear "riffy" black metal, I'll listen to Morbid Tales or Welcome to Hell.
I'm inclined to agree, really. I like Enslaved's later stuff but it's hardly standard black metal fare. Lantlos reminds me of Primordial, in many ways, so I guess that's hardly standard either. Code and Keep of Kalessin share some elements, too.
I think the best "riffy" black metal album I've heard is Lja's Til Avsky for Livet, or maybe Gorgoroth's Under the Sign of Hell. Both of them have quite raw production.
I'm trying to think of some bands that fall into this category that are actually any good, without dipping their toes into other waters like industrial. Only four I can think of that are any good:
Code Keep of Kalessin Lantlos Enslaved
It all depends on what you call slick or well-produced. If you class Gehenna and Marduk as well-produced (which they aren't particularly if you're talking about the early stuff) Then I would put them in the list. Emperor and Immortal too.
Super slick stuff...er, dunno. I like Solefald but whether they really come under black metal is up for debate. Half of these were bands I got into when I was 18, a long time ago now. So I guess it matters less as I liked it at the time and it gave me the inspiration to check other bands out and get into more "obscure" stuff.
I didn't really get into death metal until quite a bit after listening to the various different BM styles. I didn't really get them at first as they sounded a bit flat by comparison. I didn't like Testament for a loooong time, and Slayer were pretty much out of the question until my bandmate in Sirenfall lent me the back catalogue.
I wouldn't have thought it counts as slick, despite being able to hear almost everything in the mix. I think it probably applies more to death metal and bands like the Haunted than Black Metal really, which would then lose the thread.
Hollenthon would be slickly produced. Barney's partner, Esta, always raves about them, but when i listen to them i find them way ott
Or have we? Nobody really mentioned what they thought classified as Overproduced BM, or of the "bigger" bands from the old BM scene that sound quite different nowadays from their original sound. Mayhem could be accused of over-producing their albums between Wolfs Lair and Ordo Ad Chao, but then it's what they set out to do, as they were trying to break new ground and see what they could do with their sound. If all else we have to go by is Dimmu Borgir and CoF then what this thread basically means is it just comes down to what we like and what we don't like. In this case the majority here like bands with rawer production.
A lot of the original "BM" bands have changed a hell of a lot. If Enslaved and Emperor are allowed to make the albums they've made then there's a fair argument for having a "bigger" studio production. On the flip-side, I think the real problem with it is that so many metal bands aren't used to working in bigger studios and tend to get eaten alive by the producer and engineers that end up pushing them into having a sound that doesn't suit them. Either that, or having the cleaner production comes at the cost of getting a loose-playing band to try to play as tight as the average Ball-clamp, exposing their weakness and not working to their natural strengths. It'd be better to get a band in that situ to record more "live" than march them through take after take of attempted precision playing.
I'm not saying one type of band is better than the other, 'cos they simply aren't classifiable that way. It's down to style and atmos and then finally down to the listeners personal tastes...
Dimmu, CoF and later Emperor isn't black metal, so they're invalid from the argument. Stylistically, and philosophically they have nothing to do with the genre, and the tag remains only for the ease of use tag for mainstream magazines.